Liberty MavenThe Ron Paul Paul-O-Meter: John McCain
July 7th, 2008 9:02 am | by Marc Gallagher | Published in Abortion, Big Government, Civil Liberties, Constitution, Drugs, Economics, Education, Election, Environment, Federal Reserve, Foreign Policy, Free Market, Gambling, Gun Control, Health Care, Immigration, Internet Regulation, Liberty, Maven Commentary, Media, Politics, REAL ID, Religion, Ron Paul, Social Security, Taxes, War, energy, john mccain | 15 Comments
In the next installment of our Ron Paul Paul-O-Meter effort to rate the Presidential candidates we hold John McCain to the Ron Paul liberty fire. Previously, we rated Barack Obama. For details about the Paul-O-Meter see the description.
Read on for John McCain’s scores on the issues.
- Liberty-based voting record - McCain certainly has some horribly anti-liberty votes, but he’s been “ok” on both gun rights and health care. Certainly not perfect but the case can be made that he’s fairly similar to Ron Paul on those issues. Score: 1
- Federal Reserve and Monetary Policy - McCain’s view of the Fed is at complete odds with Ron Paul’s view. McCain has praised the Fed for it’s rate cuts and suggests the institution is doing a good job regulating the “markets”. Score: 0
- Foreign Policy and Iraq - John McCain’s now infamous ‘100 years’ comment says all we need to know about this issue. Score: 0
- Taxes - McCain proposes more “tinkering” tax proposals than the outright repeal Ron Paul proposes. He doesn’t have a good record on lowering taxes. He voted against the Bush tax cuts twice even though he now says he is for making them permanent. Score: 2
- Government Spending - McCain preaches for cutting “pork barrel spending” and earmarks continually, but he rarely gets specific about what departments and programs he would eliminate. He has said he would balance the budget and reform certain programs, but there is simply no details on how he would do such things. He purposefully stays away from cutting military and defense spending. Because of his lack of specifics it is difficult to believe he will actually reduce spending much, if at all. Score: 2
- Privacy and Civil Liberties - McCain supports FISA, fully supports the Patriot Act, and fully supports the Real ID Act. Even though during the primary campaign he spoke out against torture, he voted for allowing it to continue. His score here is painfully obvious. Score: 0
- Immigration - McCain was a main proponent of the immigration bill that angered so many Americans in early 2007. It instituted a form of amnesty for illegal immigrants. That is completely at odds with Ron Paul. These days McCain has backtracked a little on his immigration position. He, at least, is calling for securing the borders like Ron Paul, but he does so in a very generic fashion. One wonders if he actually believes in doing so. Score: 1
- Gun Control and Second Amendment - Like Ron Paul, McCain supported repealing the DC gun ban and believes it is an individual’s right to bear arms. However, he has continually led efforts to undermine those rights by regulating gun shows, requiring trigger locks, and supporting extending Brady Bill restrictions to pawn shops and gun repair shops. He’s far from a pure Second Amendment proponent like Ron Paul. Score: 2
- Internet Regulation - McCain is against Net Neutrality like Ron Paul. He also says he will ban Internet taxes permanently. He does not seem to much care to talk about online gambling. The Poker Player’s Alliance gave him a grade of ‘D’ on the issue. Score: 3
- Adherence To The Constitution - McCain has an unconstitutional voting record. He rarely references the document in his speeches. He votes against the principles of the Constitution all the time. He voted for the Iraq war authorization, Patriot Act, and FISA. Score: 0
- Religion vs. Public Policy - McCain actually shines on this one. In fact, on the campaign trail he sometimes changes his own religion on the fly, as has been documented. He rarely utilizes religious sentiments in his speeches. He effectively separates religion and policy like Ron Paul. However, he has sought relationships in the past with John Hagee and Jerry Falwell in efforts to garner support from the religious right. Score: 4
- Environment - McCain is a huge proponent of more government regulation over environmental issues. He strongly supports implementing a “cap and trade” system. This runs completely counter to Ron Paul’s position. Score: 0
- Energy Policy - McCain is against drilling in ANWR, and used to be against drilling off of the U.S. coastlines. He now supports drilling off the coastlines. Like Ron Paul he wants to stop filling the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to reduce demand. He previously was an outspoken critic of ethanol subsidies, but during his primary campaign in Iowa he spoke favorably of them. Score: 2
- U.S. Sovereignty - Like most candidates McCain doesn’t talk about the North American Union. Score: 0
- War on Drugs - McCain regularly ignores questions about the decriminalization of marijuana during his town hall meetings. He does not advocate for ending the war on drugs nor for releasing non-violent drug offenders from prison as Ron Paul does. Score: 0
- Education - McCain is wishy-washy on No Child Left Behind. He seems to believe that it doesn’t go far enough. He certainly doesn’t advocate getting rid of the Department of Education. He is the opposite of Ron Paul on this issue. Score: 0
- Welfare Programs - He is not advocating phasing out Social Security or other welfare programs. He is calling for reforms though. He supports personal accounts for Social Security. He supports changing the medicare prescription drug benefit to only cover low income beneficiaries. Still, this is a far cry from being like Ron Paul. Score: 1
- Abortion - McCain believes in the overturning of Roe v. Wade. He also believes abortion should be left up to the states. This is in line with Ron Paul. Score: 5
- Health Care - John McCain is against socialized medicine at the national level. However, a quick glance at his health care issue page reveals he’s not too close to Ron Paul on government intervention in the health care industry. McCain lists all sorts of federal government programs and incentives to further meddle in the health care industry. Score: 2.
- Ability To Spread The Liberty Message - Simply put, John McCain doesn’t have a liberty message to spread no matter how much media attention he gets. Score: 0
John McCain’s final Paul-O-Meter Score: 25 out of 99 possible points
After Barack Obama’s score of 17, this is about where we expected McCain to end up. What was most eye opening to us was that his health care plan is a clear attempt to win over people that believe that everyone has a right to health care. Also his perceived strength on cutting government spending is unfounded. On many of his positions he tries to play both sides and it is difficult to know where he actually stands on the issue. This is not a shock coming from a life long politician. In the end it is no surprise that McCain doesn’t hold a candle to Ron Paul on the issues.
Tune in next time when we light up the Paul-O-Meter for Libertarian candidate Bob Barr.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:16 am (#)
I’m no fan of McCain, but I don’t think some of these pass the “big picture” sanity test:
Taxes. You gave McCain a 2 and Obama a 1. Does that seem right? Obama is proposing huge amount of tax increases and programs and McCain is not. How will universal health care be funded? How about the market destroying increase in capital gains taxes? Bush tax cut? I’m not saying either guy is ideal, but McCain is moderate-conservative and Obama is quasi-socialist. This and government spending are the categories to capture that.
Immigration: Obama is better, really? They both stink.
Gun control: Obama gets 1 and McCain 2? Not realistic. Obama is as bad on this as is possible. We know he’s a terrible gun grabber, where McCain is a wishy washy moderate. I don’t think 1 vs. 2 really captures the nature of this, which is that everyone who has gun control as their top priority item would pick McCain, hands down.
War on drugs: Obama gets 2 and McCain 0. Honestly, they are both the same. I’m not sure what distinction you are making. Nothing will change with either of these guys.
Health care: I think you are unfair to McCain here. This is the one area where he’s mostly doing the right thing, especially within the bounds of what is possible. Switching away from employer based health care and keeping a free market is perfect, and Cato has even said as much. This is night and day from universal health care funded by taxes. Give him some credit here.
Ability to spread liberty message: Admittedly, they both stink, but Obama is actively spreading an anti-liberty socialist message. Is it fair to rate these two guys the same?
Maybe in the end you just have a dynamic range problem. McCain did come out better, but 17 to 25 doesn’t capture the stark contrast between a conservative/moderate as compared to a big qovernment quasi-socialist.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:04 pm (#)
From Cato:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9380
John McCain is proposing the most radical overhaul of American health-care policy in a decade and a half. Not since Bill and Hillary Clinton’s failed reform attempt has a presidential candidate, or even a president, called for such sweeping changes to the way health care is delivered and health insurance is purchased.
The New York Times reported on Thursday that 71 percent of Americans now receive insurance through their place of employment, but employer-based health insurance is a historical accident, stemming from a combination of labor shortages and wage controls during World War II. It limits consumer choice by giving decisions over coverage to employers rather than employees, meaning workers who lose their jobs lose their insurance. And individuals who do not receive employer-provided insurance face a greater financial burden when they try to buy insurance on their own.
Why should that be?
McCain would move us away from such a system. He would count at least some of a worker’s employer-paid insurance as taxable income. At the same time, he would provide all Americans with a $2,500 refundable tax credit for individuals and a $5,000 credit for families, regardless of how people obtain their insurance. McCain’s proposal exposes him to criticism that he would put people with pre-existing conditions at a disadvantage, because they have a hard time finding affordable individual coverage. But his campaign says he is considering risk-rating the tax credit he would offer, providing more money to those who need it most. And McCain would use federal funds to subsidize state high-risk pools already covering those who have trouble buying insurance in the open market.
In addition, McCain’s campaign maintains that his proposal would make insurance more affordable for everyone, including those with pre-existing conditions. In particular, by making insurance more affordable to the young and healthy, McCain’s plan will attract them into the market before they develop pre-existing conditions. And McCain rightly claims that deregulation will lead to the creation of new and innovative insurance products that can help solve these problems.
Most notably, McCain would allow people to purchase health insurance across state lines, a practice now prohibited. Health insurance is largely regulated at the state level, and the different regulations and mandates in each mean prices vary widely from state to state. For example, New Jersey imposes more than 40 mandated benefits, including in-vitro fertilization, contraceptives, chiropodists, coverage of children until they reach age 25, and other regulations. As a result, according to the Commonwealth Fund, the cost of a standard health insurance policy for a healthy 25-year old man in New Jersey comes to $5,580.
However, a similar policy in Kentucky, which has far fewer mandates, would cost him only $960 per year. Unfortunately, it is illegal for that hypothetical New Jersey resident to buy the cheaper Kentucky plan. McCain would change that.
McCain would also allow people to purchase insurance through non-traditional groups. Today, three types of organizations can offer group insurance: employers, unions and trade associations. McCain would open this to other groups, notably churches and professional organizations.
Finally, McCain wants to change not only who pays for health care, but how they pay for it. McCain challenges the concept of traditional “fee for service” medicine.
“We should pay a single bill for high-quality health care,” he says, “not an endless series of bills for pre-surgical tests and visits, hospitalization and surgery, and follow-up tests, drugs and office visits.”
McCain also rightly calls for greater transparency for health care costs and prices.
“Families, insurance companies, the government - whoever is paying the bill - must understand exactly what their care costs are and the outcome they received.”
Steve Parente, professor of finance at the University of Minnesota, estimates that the McCain plan would cut the number of uninsured Americans by roughly half. But equally important, McCain’s proposal would drive down the cost of health care for everyone.
As Democrats often claim, the status quo isn’t working, and that’s because so many people are stuck without any good options. McCain’s proposal would give people back the choices they need to get better care. And he would do it without having the government take over the health system.
That’s a radical change, and the right idea.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm (#)
Chuck,
Whether or not McCain’s health care plan is viewed as the “right idea” by someone is not the point. The point is how closely each of the current candidate’s plans mimic Ron Paul’s position on the issue.
McCain is not advocating for removing government regulation from health care. The radical changes he is calling for just amount to different regulations. Albeit those regulations may improve costs and cover more people.
When measured against Ron Paul McCain deserves no better than the score we gave him. It is the Paul-O-Meter, not the What-Is-Possible-And-A-Step-In-The-Right-Direction-O-Meter.
We are currently working on a web application that will allow anyone to score any one or more of the Presidential candidates on these 20 criteria. The results for each will then be averaged and presented. We will include our own ratings in the polling as well. So you’ll have a chance to give McCain and the others your own ratings at some point (hopefully soon).
When rating them it is important to separate what you think is right and what Ron Paul’s position/record on the issue is. In our ratings we tried to give a justification for each score.
The process we use looks at quotes, voting records, and the issues pages for each of the candidates. The bottom line is, How do they measure up to Ron Paul? In our view, McCain is better on Health Care than Obama, but he’s no Ron Paul on it either (whether we agree with Paul or not).
-Marc
July 7th, 2008 at 4:00 pm (#)
Chuck,
Further addressing the specific issues you brought up:
Taxes:
We downgraded McCain here because he has been against the Bush tax cuts in the past (twice) and has continually voted for trillion dollar budgets (related to spending more I suppose). Because of this it is difficult to trust him when he says he will make the Bush tax cuts permanent… But even then the Bush tax cuts are only a trickle compared to what Ron Paul wants to do. Again, it is not a test of whether the criteria is a step in the right direction or not, but how it measures up to Ron Paul.
Immigration:
Agreed, they both do stink, but what we found interesting is that Obama actually has echoed Ron Paul on one aspect of immigration and that is reducing the incentive for illegal immigrants to come here. Also Obama actually voted FOR the border fence (Ron Paul did, but later said he didn’t really believe in it), but later (again like Ron Paul) went back on the idea. McCain supported Amnesty in a very clear way, unlike Obama’s more convoluted way.
Gun Control:
Obama is very bad on this, but McCain is not great either. He has voted for gun control measures like trigger locks, regulating gun shows, pawn shops selling guns, etc.. The GOA despises him. See this and tell me how close he is to Ron Paul on this issue:
http://www.gunowners.org/mccaintb.htm
You are correct that given the choice between Obama and McCain gun rights people will most certainly vote for McCain, but it is not a vote they seem to be happy about if they are informed of his record.
War on Drugs:
Both Obama and McCain like to tip toe around this issue. Perhaps giving Obama a 2 here was too high, but he has said things that indicate he is more apt to reform the drug war than McCain. It may be prudent to score him a 1 instead of a 2 because of that, but McCain is a certain 0.
Health Care: see above.
Ability To Spread The Liberty Message:
Yes… Obama’s civil liberties and now somewhat shifting stance on Iraq are better than McCain’s Bush like advocacy of the Patriot Act, FISA, Iraq War, Foreign Policy of interventionism. Although the argument could be made that Obama’s not much better on these issues. Then taking into account Obama’s socialist domestic policies/programs certainly makes both Obama and McCain equally bad at having a “liberty message” to spread. And remember it is how close they are to Ron Paul on that liberty message. Neither even come close in our view.
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the discussion.
Enjoy,
Marc
July 7th, 2008 at 10:51 pm (#)
I posted (when the Obama ranking came out) that I expected McCain to do better - but not much better. I tend to agree a little with Chuck, in that since this is subjective, Marc slighted McCain somewhat - but just a little. If I were ranking them, I’d give Obama about a 16, and McCain about a 30. When I went to school, those are both solid “F” grades.
There’s a website called ontheissues.org that classifies the candidates into a 4 quadrant system, where libertarian is one of them. Ron Paul was certainly the closest of the initial candidates. Rudy Giuliani was #2. Out of the Dems - there was no one who wasn’t either hard core liberal nor populist. Can’t recall where McCain ended up, mainly because he wasn’t as anti-liberty as Obama (who was one of the worst), but nowhere near the top (where Ron Paul came closest).
I haven’t checked to see where they put Bob Barr - but they go on the last several years worth of positions, so he still wouldn’t come all that close to Paul. In fact, I’d suspect Giuliani’s stances/record would still come closer than Barr’s. For Barr, we just have to hope its a real conversion. I choose to believe it is. Barr is saying things that are far closer to a true liberty position than either big party candidate.
Frankly, I can’t stomach either Obama nor McCain. In short, even though Marc’s rankings may be harsh to McCain - the basic message is the same.
A lot of people are saying, well, voting for Barr just ensures Obama gets in. My thought is Obama is the most anti-liberty and Barr is the most pro-liberty. McCain is in the middle. So, a vote for McCain tends to ensure Obama gets in. If everyone just voted their conscience and not what the media said, I’d bet Barr could get a lot of votes…
July 7th, 2008 at 10:59 pm (#)
OK… as a follow up, I checked. Barr is listed as conservative. Chuck Baldwin is listed as libertarian conservative - straddling the line. Baldwin is against free trade; which I have a huge issue with. Either way, he’s not a factor. I suppose Barr won’t be much of one either, but I’m really hoping he can spread the liberty message.
Harry Browne was a great communicator, better than Barr, and libertarian his whole life. But, Barr’s got a bigger stage…
July 8th, 2008 at 9:50 am (#)
Dave, I’m not sure how the ratings were done at the website you refer to, but going on Barr’s entire record would give a very different result than going from his more recently staked out positions. Personally, I think his conversion is sincere, so I’m listening to what he says now (much more libertarian).
The other thing, from my perspective, is that those libertarian testers give undue weight to fringe wedge issues like whether you want to legalize crack and prostitution, or sell the national parks. I find those to be pointless distractions, deserving of much less weight than things like overall government spending, taxes, free trade, gun rights and so on. I know others disagree, which is why I stopped being in the LP and just became independent.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:49 pm (#)
[...] of the two status quo candidates and held them up to the “Ron Paul Paul-O-Meter.” John McCain’s dismal score of 25 out of 99 possible points was nearly as low as I thought you could get until I saw Barack [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 11:20 pm (#)
Chuck -
Yes, the website includes voting record, as that’s often more substantive than what someone says. Having said that, I don’t really believe Giuliani is more liberty minded than Barr - just that his track record while in office shows it. Barr is rated as conservative, but I believe I posted earlier that I believe Barr’s conversion. I had a somewhat similar one. I was born in 1963. I came of age when Carter was in office. I was a huge Reagan supporter as were many of my contemporaries in both his rhetoric and sharp contrast to Carter. As such, I thought I was a Republican for years. It took several disappointments and the coming of Harry Browne to change that view. Harry made me realize that I was wrong about some things. I think Barr realizes that now, it just took him longer (he was in the system).
Anyway… I wholeheartedly support Barr - and believe McCain a little better than Obama - but its somewhat like drowning in 30 feet of water vs. 40 feet of water with them.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:15 pm (#)
[...] John McCain 25 [...]
July 15th, 2008 at 6:48 pm (#)
[...] Chuck Baldwin’s turn to be spun through the Paul-O-Meter. So far we have rated Barack Obama, John McCain, and Bob Barr. Will Chuck Baldwin beat Bob Barr’s current high score of 88? Read on to find [...]
July 15th, 2008 at 11:03 pm (#)
[...] how close a candidates’ views are to Ron Paul. The blog had previously run the numbers on McCain, Obama, and Barr. Now, Baldwin has been ranked. Did he beat Barr’s high score of 88? Check it [...]
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:46 pm (#)
Sorry, but you are QUITE MISTAKEN on McCain’s position on abortion. From the Washington Post:
“But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support the repeal of Roe v. Wade . . . .”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/mccain082499.htm
July 24th, 2008 at 12:25 am (#)
Xthe17th,
Yes, that was back in 1999. These days according to his issues page he does support overturning R v. W. I guess his long term is about 6-8 years or so, depending upon which group he is trying to secure votes from.
-Marc
July 28th, 2008 at 10:04 am (#)
[...] but it is a fairly comprehensive method. We began ranking the candidates using the methodology with John McCain and Barack Obama. We then focused on the third party and independent candidates, Bob Barr, Chuck [...]